#LegalTechLives with Sarah Glassmeyer, lawyer, librarian and technologist at the ABA Center for Innovation Legal rebel and top blogger Sarah Glassmeyer has led a wildly varied career but she assures us it all made sense at the time.
Sarah Glassmeyer is a technologist, lawyer, and librarian. She has also worked as an academic law librarian, a professor, a Director of Content Management for a non-profit legal publisher and tech shop, and she was a research fellow at the Harvard Library Innovation Lab and the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society. In 2011, Sarah was named to the inaugural class of the Fastcase 50, and in 2013, her blog SarahGlassmeyer.com was named to the ABA Blawg 100, and in 2016 she was named an ABA Legal Rebel. Sarah was also recently named to the ABA LRTC “Women of Legal Tech” list. Ava Chisling: Tell me a bit about where you grew up and where you live/work today? Sarah Glassmeyer: I grew up on a farm in Southern Ohio on the edge of Appalachia. I still haven’t converted to city life. Even though I work at ABA HQ in downtown Chicago, I live in a rural area outside of a small college town in Northwest Indiana. My commute is ridiculous, but every time I go to the Indiana Dunes or see tractors driving up my road, it’s worth it. AC: You spent a year at the Harvard Innovation Lab. I imagine a kind of Mad Scientist space. Do I watch too much TV? SG: It is definitely a neat collaborative space of lawyers, librarians and technologists, all working to make information more accessible in many forms. It and Berkman [the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society] are pretty cool, although the real mad scientist space is down the road at the MIT Media Lab. That place really does feel like Willy Wonka’s factory.
During my time at the Harvard lab, I studied how state governments publish legal information and sought ways to make it more open and free. Unfortunately, I sort of researched myself out of a future in free law because I learned that there needs to be huge systematic changes to really accomplish it and as a standalone librarian, I wasn’t going to be able to make much of a difference. I mean, I’ll get back to it some time, but I definitely needed a break from it. AC: You are a Project Specialist Manager at the ABA. What do you do and what are you most proud of so far? SG: We’re still ramping up in many ways at the ABA Center For Innovation, so my day to day varies. I’m really a Jane of all trades, especially concentrating on the tech projects that the center handles. We’ve done a lot of cool things thus far, but I think the neatest is going to be our class of Fellows that we’re bringing in. As a former educator, I’m really proud of the curriculum and learning environment that we’re building for them this year and I’m confident that we’re going to send out a new wave of legal innovators every year. We’ll continue to make tools and websites for the legal profession, but our graduated fellows will probably have the most impact. AC: At ROSS, we believe technology like AI can do a lot of good worldwide. Who do you think is responsible for making sure tech is available globally? SG: One of the drums that I like to beat is the “everyone should use and support Free and Open Source Tools and Content.” So to answer your question, the responsibility is evenly spread out among all stakeholders. Using free and open source software doesn’t mean that you can’t use it to make money, it just lowers the barrier to entry for all players.
AC: You have this quote on your website: “It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine,” and now I can’t get the song out of head. What’s your favorite song of all time and what song drives you mad? SG: You know how everyone is always like “Oh I love music! All genres!” Well, I’m like that but the opposite. I’m not a big music person. I mean, I don’t dislike it, but I just prefer silence. I do occasionally listen to music on my commute or when I work out and my Zune (yes, I still use Zune) is filled with music from the 1990s. It’s like I stopped seeking out new music after I graduated from college. Oh, and I like jazz, especially when I can catch it live.
“Don’t go into the world with an us vs. them attitude towards legal tech vendors. Use them to make yourself more productive.” AC: You have spent time in law and education. What are the top three things future lawyers really need to grasp right now? SG: 1. InfoSec, which is a cool kid way of saying “Information Security.” Know where your data is and how it’s being protected. 2. The world is the Web and the Web is Social. There is no delineation between your
online life and the “real world.” Act accordingly. 3. If tech can replace a “lawyerly task,” then it’s not a task that lawyers should be wasting their time on and billing clients for. Don’t go into the world with an “us vs. them” attitude towards legal tech vendors. Use them to make yourself more productive. AC: Why is it so important legal information be made public? SG: To me, it’s a fundamental basic need in a democracy — if we are a nation of laws, people should be able to freely read and access those laws. And it’s absolutely crazy to me that you can’t do this in some jurisdictions! I’m not even talking about the “in the weeds” discussions I’ve been known to have about “free” vs. “open” law. I mean in some states you literally have to pay a commercial publisher (or hope that a nearby library has it) in order to read the law that governs you. It ain’t right! As for privacy, I’m pretty much a hard liner and except in the cases of minors or victims of crime: ‘dems the breaks of interacting in the justice system. AC: How has technology changed the law library? What will the library look like in 20 years? SG: It’s funny — libraries are in a similar boat to the practice of law, except libraries are about 20 years advanced when it comes to integrating tech. Yes, some classic librarian duties have been replaced by technology, but librarians and their knowledge are still around, and will still be around in 20 years. But what libraries did do is miss the boat on open source technology. They could have been building and owning this tech, but the will wasn’t there by leadership so now libraries are trapped by crappy and expensive software. I hope legal doesn’t make the same mistake. As for what they’ll look like, libraries in 20 years will probably
look much like they do now, but with fewer print materials and more options for seating. AC: Why do libraries have to be so quiet? I was always thrown out of them as a kid/teenager/adult. SG: Back when I was a practicing librarian, I was regularly shushed by my patrons. Public libraries are mad houses nowadays, with kids’ activities, maker spaces and the like. Law libraries will probably be one of the last bastions of “quiet, reflective space.” AC: This made me smile in your CV: “Lawberry Camp Unconference Creator.” What’s it about? SG: Okay, back when I was a spunky young law librarian, I was extremely dissatisfied with the educational content provided by my professional associations. So a friend and I decided to hold an “unconference” which is similar to BarCamps or FooCamps. Basically, attendee-driven content. We wanted a fun name, so we decided on “Lawberry” as a play on Lawbraries. AC: And here is a question I ask of everyone: What non-workrelated invention would you like to have right now? I’ve heard hoverboard and robot mechanic, among others…. SG: Oh, it’s already invented and I’m too cheap to buy one — a Roomba. I’m like a dog — I can’t stand the sound of a vacuum. The idea that one could do my floors for me when I’m at work sounds like heaven. I soon plan to live out my librarian destiny and get a few cats and I’ll have to bite the bullet and get one then.
AC: We definitely agree on your point about lawyers not fighting new tech, especially since it exists to make life easier, not harder, — although we disagree about your love of jazz live (zzzzz!). Thank you for your time, Sarah! For information about ROSS: here.
By Ava Chisling on June 22, 2017. Canonical link Exported from Medium on August 18, 2017.