Avan Jogia
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Earlier this year, Avan Jogia made his feature writing and directorial debut
with Door Mouse, a contemporary neo-noir thriller and “love letter to
Vancouver” that the multifaceted creative and storyteller started concocting when he was in his early twenties. Thrust into the limelight at a young age, the Canadian actor, director, and writer has been breaking the mold and reinventing himself on his own terms since leaving child stardom behind. Now 31, he makes it a point to have much more control over his work and be judicious about the projects he does. To mark this milestone achievement for the genuine versatile artist, he was joined by his former Nickelodeon castmate, Liz Gillies, who has remained a faithful supporter and dear friend, for a heart-to-heart conversation. While reviving fond memories of their longtime friendship and taking us behind the scenes of Door Mouse, the pair discussed Hollywood oddities and the surprising rewards of directing.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
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LIZ GILLIES: Avan, how are you?
AVAN JOGIA: I’m fine. Where are you? What’s going on?
LG: I’m in Atlanta.
AJ: You’re back in Atlanta? You were in LA for a second, though. Weren’t you?
LG: I keep going to LA. It keeps dragging me back [laughs].
AJ: I’m doing the same thing. I’m probably there a week every month.
LG: I know. Well, I appreciate you asking me to interview you.
AJ: I was like, ‘‘This is a great idea, this is what the people want to see.’’ [Laughs]
LG: I’m so excited, though. I loved this movie [Door Mouse]. I watched it late at night in my dark bedroom. I know that wasn’t the exact tone of the film, but I was smiling from ear to ear because I’ve known you for so long and it was exciting to see your vision finally come to life on my screen. I remember you telling me about this project seven or eight years ago. Is that right?
AJ: That is right, probably seven years ago.
LG: We were driving around in your blue vintage car. What was it?
AJ: The Ford Falcon that I no longer have. I sold all my things when I moved away forever.
LG: [Laughs] I love the idea of selling all your things.
AJ: You know I love a bit.
LG: I know, and you’re so committed to the bit.
AJ: There was a bit that we were doing when we were kids and we were doing [Victorious]. I was doing the troubled teen star.
LG: And I was doing someone wise beyond my years. We were both brooding but we were cute.
AJ: The video you sent me the other day of us brooding at Graceland is the broodiest I’ve ever looked in my entire life.
LG: [Laughs] I sent Avan a video that somebody sent me on Twitter. I rarely check it but when I do, there’s always something I have to share with one of my friends. There was a video of us [at Graceland] linking arms and I was lazily taking photos.
AJ: And there is no interest.
LG: It was bizarre.
AJ: When I first moved to America, I had
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That’s one of the greatest accidental joys for me to see that someone who is a dear old friend of mine can see [Door Mouse] and be like, “Oh, that’s Avan as a film.” That’s one of the things that make me the most proud.
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that Ford Falcon because I was doing an Americana teen dream machine bit.
LG: You wore so many rings.
AJ: It’s a lot of work. I used to have ten rings that were all made of tin, but I have one really good ring now.
LG: My favorite story is when I went to your apartment in the heart of Hollywood. I’m sure you remember.
AJ: Yes, it was an office building. I had lied to them and said I was a photographer so I could stay there. I don’t think it was even a real place where people could live.
LG: I didn’t even know if there was a bathroom. But I asked you for water and you said, ‘‘I’m sorry, dear, I only have leather mugs.’’ [Laughs] And I drank out of it.
AJ: [Laughs] But we were both aware of the bit that we were doing.
LG: Well played. So, talking about your movie, it was so quintessentially you in every way. This is a huge compliment because you’ve always had such a distinct aesthetic. You created a world that was yours and it made me very happy when I saw it. I know you’ve been doing this creative art and poetry for so long, and I remember seeing your art maybe on Facebook or when I first met you. Do you think this was all leading up to this? I assume the art in the movie was yours.
AJ: I partnered with a comic book illustrator, but then when we were on set, a lot of the stuff had to be hand spray painted. Or I would always find a way to paint a part of a wall or write in a notebook in a certain style. That’s one of the greatest accidental joys for me to see that someone who is a dear old friend of mine can see the film and be like, ‘‘Oh, that’s Avan as a film.’’ That’s one of the things that make me the most proud.
LG: As a friend, that’s what I thought. I was like, ‘‘It’s Avan. Look at this, this guy pulled this off, it’s amazing.’’ And not only that, but I know you probably didn’t have a ton of money and the movie looks expensive.
AJ: No, we shot in 18 days for like $1.3 million.
LG: Really? It looked like a comic book that came to life and a bigger-budget movie. I texted you after I watched it and I said, ‘‘You must have had an extraordinary DP or a crew around you that was creative and shared your vision.’’ Because everybody got it and brought their A-game. Was any of the wardrobe yours?
AJ: The coat was mine and a lot of the suit that Ugly wore, it was mine.
LG: Why didn’t you play Ugly? Did you ever think of playing him? He had Avan’s vibes for sure.
AJ: There was a time where I was going to play Ugly, but I wanted to be directing and it was hard enough without having to be in the scene, which is why I played Mooney. We also shot this during the early days of the pandemic, so I’d say 20% of our budget went to Covid. So if one of us got sick, the movie just went away. That added pressure. I also had a pretty specific vision for who I wanted Ugly to be. But again, with the pandemic, I was like, ‘‘If I can’t get anybody, I guess I’ll have to do it.’’
LG: I hate directing myself. I learned that when I directed for the first time. But I think it was wise for you to take a smaller, more controlled, and still very cool and important, pivotal role, without being in as much of the film as Ugly was.
AJ: Keith Powers was so good. For me, acting was three days, which I could do.
LG: I would think as a director and a storyteller, that would be the greatest thing for you not to have to tell people and explain your thinking behind things, and for people to know immediately what your voice is.
AJ: I feel like nowadays, we’re making so much content that a lot of it doesn’t feel like there’s an author at all. So, I wanted to make something that was at the very least handmade and a part of my DNA. I’m glad that comes across and it’s a good test when old friends are like, ‘‘Yeah, that’s you.’’
LG: I wanted everyone to hear that this movie is amazing. I adored the comic book style animation you intercut with the live
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action. When did you get that idea? Did it evolve or did you know that you were going to be doing that?
AJ: It was always an idea that I had, but with the budget constraints, there are action sequences that we couldn’t do because we simply didn’t have time to shoot.
LG: I won’t give away anything about the movie, but there’s a very large scene where something happens, that involves violence and action with Mouse, and it’s covered through animation. I thought it was very clever and effective.
AJ: For me, there are two types of films about heroin. There’s Requiem for a Dream which you can watch once, right? And then there’s Trainspotting that you can watch 100 times. I liked that a part of the animation was distancing the audience from the horror so that we can concentrate on what the film is about. It’s about a hero, like a traditional hero story.
LG: That’s how I felt watching it. Even though the material is heavy, it’s stylized in a way it’s accessible and enjoyable to watch.
AJ: Then you get to walk away from it being like, ‘‘That hero stepped up from their situation to defend themselves and the people they love.’’ Whereas I don’t think it would have been that way if we went very realistic. I want people to feel good after [laughs].
LG: You did the right thing. Did you write this for Hayley Law [as Mouse], who was fantastic, or did you audition her?
AJ: I did not audition her, but she was awesome. I had worked with her before and we both had similar references as to what we thought this person was. And this movie is a love letter to Vancouver, where she is from. But I wrote it seven years ago, so even if I wrote it for someone, they’d be a different person by the time we started shooting.
LG: That’s true. Where did you shoot?
AJ: We had to shoot in Vancouver but we shot in Ontario because it’s not the city I grew up in anymore. It’s all clean now.
LG: Right. Was most of the cast Canadian?
AJ: A lot of the cast was Canadian — myself, Hayley [Law], Gabriel Carter, and of course Nhi [Do], who you love.
LG: You sent Nhi my way and I was thankful because she was fantastic in our film too.
AJ: I also had my dear friends like Landon Liboiron. He stayed the whole shoot to document it. I felt very supported by my loved ones and the people around me on this film. It’d be the second biggest takeaway.
LG: It must have felt special for you to be at the point and the level in your career where you’re creating this feature all on your own. And it’s in your homeland of Canada with all these people you love around you.
AJ: You’re like, ‘‘Wait, how is this a serious thing? Is everyone going to take this seriously?’’
LG: You feel like you have to be the most grown-up in the room, but inside you’re like, ‘‘This is so fun and crazy.’’ Your brother [Ketan Jogia] did the score, right?
AJ: Yes! The score is a huge character of the film. One of the benefits of having the composer so early on, and I mean this by forcing my brother to work on the film [laughs], was that when we were editing, he was writing scores in the room next to us. So, as we were editing a sequence, we would throw him some footage, he would start editing music to it, and he would throw it back to us. It became a creative relationship like that, which was awesome.
LG: He did a great job. His score felt really intuitive. And the music was pretty much wall-to-wall in the film. How did you find it all? I know it’s hard getting music.
AJ: We had Dondrea Erauw who was the music supervisor. She was amazing.
LG: Again, I won’t give anything away, but you know my taste and we have a lot in common. I loved the whole occult thing very much. I was like, ‘‘I know it’s bad.’’ [Laughs]
AJ: Those are the bad guys.
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LG: And you love a mask. I’ve hung out with you so much, and I have to say you were wearing a mask probably about 15% to 20% of that time [laughs].
AJ: I do love a mask.
LG: There’s a moment where I knew which one was you. I turned to Michael [Liz’s husband] and I was like, ‘‘That’s Avan.’’
AJ: [Laughs] That’s when someone has known you for 12 years.
LG: I loved it. Did that take a while to conceptualize it?
AJ: I was directing the sequence in which my character has to put on the mask and disappear into the crowd. But I dyed my hair blonde and as soon as I put the mask on, I was like, ‘‘Everyone is going to know who it is.’’ So the producer, who knows I’m a crazy person, was like, ‘‘It would be really punk rock of you if you shaved your head.’’ I’d already made one of the actors — Michela Cannon who plays Riz — shave and dye their hair. It shows how people were all in on this. I was like, ‘‘I love you for being as crazy as I am.’’ And then I shaved mine in solidarity.
LG: They were bending over backwards for you because they believed in your vision. I didn’t feel jealous at all watching the film because everyone in it was way cooler than me. I understood why I’m not in this movie... until I saw The Dame. But I had no qualms over the performance I saw.
AJ: You’re too gorgeous and young, this is the problem. But I did a star experiment about who in the cast would play which parts in this mad version, and obviously, you’re The Dame.
LG: [Laughs] That would be great. When it ends, it has that comic book feeling where you could keep going with these guys and I could go with Mouse on her next journey. Do you have any aspirations, thoughts, or hopes to make any more, if you could?
AJ: We could maybe do a graphic novel about it. If so, I would just do a full reset and then have all the same characters. She wakes up and there are new problems. Because the
whole thing centers around the idea of a dream. And then, there is the constant fear and anxiety about the doom of the world.
LG: I forgot to ask you a very important thing. What drew you to the story? Is there an even darker, twisted side to your life I know nothing about? Or was this your imagination running wild and a world you wanted to explore?
AJ: Where I grew up in Vancouver, I heard about all these people going missing, specifically sex workers of color, mostly indigenous women. Then, it ended up being this horrible serial killer and the police never looked into it. It’s just awful in every imaginable way. I didn’t want to make that film because no one wins in it. So I thought, ‘‘What would it be like if somebody from that community was able to rise up and blow away the bad guy?’’ I guess my imagination went wild on that idea.
LG: Right. If you did it totally straightforward, it would be more like a real downer documentary.
AJ: Yes and that’s a film for a different filmmaker. But I was heartbroken and felt very angry about knowing that. So, that anger fueled ideas, as it usually does for me. But I think that doing it beat by beat of what happened didn’t feel right coming from me.
LG: You know your audience as well, and the way you did this was very smart. I’m glad you told me that because I didn’t know. Hearing that is crazy but you feel the weight of that in the film.
AJ: It has the seriousness but because of the tone of it, it can have funny moments. One of my biggest takeaways from this is how much fun I have making films. And I want to continue doing it.
LG: Do you feel now at this juncture that you identify more as an actor, a filmmaker, or a director? Which do you enjoy more right now? Because for me, when I directed, I was like, ‘‘Wow, I like that a lot. Not that I don’t like the other thing.’’
AJ: I think people like us have a desire to be
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involved in a serious way. We were always like this, even back when we were part of the show. And the unfortunate nature of acting is that you aren’t involved that way in the creative process. Even if you’re as lucky as you and I have been to lead shows and be the one that everyone relies on as an actor, there’s a distance between you and the creative process. And I want to be as close to the sun as possible.
LG: I agree.
AJ: Liz, there is a reason why you feel like you’re 60 and I feel like I’m 95. We’ve been professionals for 20 years!
LG: [Laughs] Going off what you just said, my advice to any kids in that position is like, ‘‘Go ask to sit in editing. Go try to pitch a story.’’ They won’t do it, but ask them.
AJ: Do you remember how many times you or I pitched stories? Remember when I was pitching to Nickelodeon for an animated show and I was convinced that they would take me seriously.
LG: You’ve got to try, man.
AJ: Going back to your question, I want to continue to act but I have to be careful nowadays. I have to make sure I’m choosing stuff that keeps the novelty and brightness of what I want to do. Because the worst thing you can do is get jaded and no longer have a beginner’s mindset.
LG: It’s hard when you’re doing something for so long and you get stuck. When we worked together a million years ago, I do remember you and I coming up with all these detailed fake backstories when we would just be in the background with no lines or Tori would be performing.
AJ: It was like, ‘‘Are we being in a fight because we’re both cheating on each other?’’ We would play that tension for the entirety of the scene and they would be like, ‘‘Why are they doing that in the background?’’
LG: Exactly. No explanation of the backstory for an eight-hour shoot. I shouldn’t even say this, but I would like to see where those two cuties are now.
AJ: We had a lot of fun. At what point was it printed that I didn’t like the experience?
LG: I saw that and I was like, ‘‘I think he did like it, though.’’ It was fun.
AJ: No, I had a great time. It was like college with the most interesting people that you could gather. Every one of us was really complicated and interesting, and we had a lot going on in our personal and inner lives. It was all happening and it was awesome.
LG: And all of us, except for maybe one or two, were like, ‘‘What is Los Angeles?’’
AJ: Yes. I’ve spoken about it before, but I was definitely being thrown into this world that I’d known nothing about. And we were all playing this character in our personal and professional lives.
LG: We were melding into the characters and then we were informing them. The characters were being written after us.
AJ: That’s how it happens mostly on these kids’ television shows. The writers start to look at the kids to find the next storyline or the next bit.
LG: Avan, I am so proud of you. This made me so happy, not only as a friend but also as a fellow professional in the industry. You are inspiring me to want to go do this because this is something I’ve always been scared to do. You did all of it, man, and I know people are loving this movie. I hope more people check it out and keep watching it. I can’t wait to see what you do next. Is there anything else you want to say?
AJ: You were lovely and professional as you always are. I feel like it was Barbara Walters.
LG: It’s just a bit, man. It’s the interviewer bit. I’m wearing a blazer and I’m off-camera.
AJ: Thank you for doing this interview, I really appreciate it. I love you, Liz.
LG: I love you, bye!
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People like us have a desire to be involved in a serious way. Even if you’re as lucky as you and I have been to lead shows and be the one that everyone relies on as an actor, there’s a distance between you and the creative process. And I want to be as close to the sun as possible.
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